Last summer we took a vacation to see some family in the Midwest. We used this opportunity to visit some attractions that we had some free passes to (and yet we still wind up spending nearly $50 at each place on small lunches and rides). We went to the Creation Museum in northern Kentucky, where we enjoyed great exhibits, a planetarium show, a nature walk, and hand-feeding a camel. On the trip home, we stopped at the Knoxville Zoo for a day (it's free admission with the Friends of Zoo membership). It's a great zoo, with camel rides, a great kids area, and a nice variety of animals. It was a great time, despite what it cost us in time, money, and energy; after all, sometimes you just need to make the vacation happen.
My favorite part of the trip was when we were walking through the Creation Museum, learning about and discussing history from a biblical perspective. At one point, my always-analytical son Elijah (age 6 at the time) asked, "Dad, how do we know that God is real?" I paused and asked him, "Do you think God is real?" He replied, "Yes, but only because you say He's real." What a great, honest answer, and it reminded me of how much he looks up to me, and how much I need to set the spiritual and leadership tone in our house.
I told him that he's right in that I believe in God, but that one day he would have to believe in God for himself, not because his Daddy believes in God. He again asked, "But can I know that He's real?" I told him the reasons that I believe in God:
- Creation. It just makes sense that everything in the universe exists because there is a Creator. It all could not have happened by itself. As a former scientist (B.S. in Biochemistry, and M.S. in Organic Chemistry, and working as a chemist for almost 10 years), this is a topic that I have questioned and studied a lot, since I became a follower of Jesus at the age of 19.
- Jesus' Resurrection. Historical evidence shows that Jesus' tomb was empty, and the best explanation is that He came back to life. When someone dies and comes back to life, I'm going to pay attention to everything He says.
- My Experience. I told Elijah that even if the proof of creation and the resurrection didn't point to God being real, I would still believe in God. I believe in Him based on everything He has done in my life, especially over the past 16 years. This last point is huge for me. As a scientist, I don't like to make decisions without empirical evidence, but I cannot deny the grace and power that He has shown in my life.
Note: Before reading the comments, you may want to read my response to the comments I received, which may help clarify some things.
Related Links:
- "How Do You Know That Jesus Is Real?"
- Easter: The Crux of the Matter
- Passing on Your Faith
- Busted! What My Son Thought About My Speeding Ticket
- Explaining Abortion to My Son
- Spiritual Birthdays: Should We Emphasize?
- My Son Is Not Ready to Become a Christian
- The Cell and the Origin of Life
- Science and Magic
- I Am a Six-Day Creationist
Historical evidence shows that Jesus' tomb was empty, and the best explanation is that He came back to life.
ReplyDeleteThat is retarded. Did your thesis for your Masters degree also have statements like this?
no actually your retarded. If you actually read the bible you would have known that there was an angel telling Marry that he was risen. Get your facts straight lol
DeleteGod wouldn't want you to be insulting his followers for sharing their stories about christianity
Deleteyour kid was clearly born an atheist like all children.
ReplyDeleteIf he had been born in another country he would have been taught to believe a different religion "because his daddy says its real".
When you told him your reasons for believing you should have answered:
1. I was taught to believe it the same way im teaching you. I believed because my dad believed. When I got older I had to make up other reasons why I believed because that was easier than rejecting the indoctrination I had been subjected to. By the time you are my age I will have brainwashed you as well, and you will lie to yourself, ignore reason, stop asking questions, and value faith as if it were a virtue.
Then you will go and repeat the lies and indoctrination onto your children.
Children are not born atheist, they are born without knowledge and wisdom, which is pretty to being atheist haha
Deletewhen you die which we all will you will be utterly alone without a single hope in the world and you call me foolish for beliving in god
Delete1) For the brevity of this post (and in my conversation with my son), I did not go into the historical evidence. But as I wrote, it is a topic I studied a lot. I'm not sure how it is "retarded," and frankly, your use of that offensive term shows how small your mind is.
ReplyDelete2) If you read the article better, you would know that I did not come to be a follower of Jesus until the age of 19. So you saying that I believed because my dad believed could not be further from the truth.
so you became retarded at 19, got it.
ReplyDeleteSir there is actually littl to no historical evidence from Jesus' contemporaries that he existed. There was supposedly an earthquake after his death that was so powerful that it woke the dead who wandered throuh Jerusalem. No historian from the time period recorded such a quake despite having recorded every major geological event from the time. And there is no mention of the dead walking. Also, there is no historical evidence of Jesus' tomb. The bible does say so, but the bible is inadmissable here as evidence for two reasons.
ReplyDelete1)It was written well after the time that Jesus purportedly lived and died.
2)The bible, in logical debate, must be regarded as a work of fiction because the only evidence given that it is true is that it says so. This would be like regarding Harry Potter as non-fiction if J. K. Rowling had put a disclaimer in that said "Harry Potter is a true story.
Cont.
ReplyDeleteAnd if you try and use the Josephus texts please know that they too are no longer admissable evidence for Jesus as a historical figure.
And the world does not point to a creator. In your mind it does, but I entreat you to look past your faith and take an objective look at things. If something in nature seems perfectly suited for its environment that does not mean it was designed that way. It means that it has evolved and adapted to suit its environment. And your degree has nothing to do with this. That is a logical fallacy called appeal to authority. You cannot win an argument using contrived logic like that.
And finally, you seem like a very good person and I'm sure you are an excellent father. But try and take credit for what you have done with your life. god has not given you anything. You have worked for it and you should be proud of any accomplishment that you make without feeling the need to place the accolades on an imaginary friend.
Thanks again for the encouragement, Joey. I really value your thoughts, effort, and wisdom in how you parent your children in a Christ-centered home. It is apparent that you seek God and that He equips you in unique ways to guide and support other families. We truly value you and your family and it is so exciting to see God moving in your life.
ReplyDelete"Historical evidence shows that Jesus' tomb was empty, and the best explanation is that He came back to life. When someone dies and comes back to life, I'm going to pay attention to everything He says."
ReplyDelete[citation needed]
One book that I read at the time was "More Than a Carpenter" by Josh McDowell. Another more modern version of this is "A Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel. He also wrote a book that is more along the scientific lines called "A Case for A Creator."
ReplyDeleteBoth McDowell and Strobel were like me in that they came to the truth while investigating it as skeptics / non-believers. It was actually their investigation that led them (and same with me) to the overwhelming evidence of the true Jesus.
As a scientist, there is little that we truly "know." What we do is make the best conclusions that we can from the evidence we have.
To dismiss the historicity of Jesus (and there is more that supports the Bible's claims than just what is in the Bible), you would have to dismiss much of what is recorded in history. Especially from that time period (and even later), you do not find historical documents and evidences that are better supported by manuscripts and have a smaller time gap between the events and the documentation.
The first writings of anyone named Christ appear in 49 A.D. (Letters from Paul) That is Almost 20 years after his supposed death. There are no texts contemporary to Jesus that mention anyone like him. And for such detailed record keepers you would think that the Romans might make note of someone healing the blind and the maimed and causing mischief in temples. Also, the main texts used to show Jesus as a historical figure are all hearsay, meaning that someone heard someone else talk about Jesus and then wrote about him.
ReplyDeleteCont.
ReplyDeleteAnd the writings that "prove" Jesus as a historical figure are from a very short time period so we would not have to dismiss many historical writings. Religion doesn't need Jesus to exist. The fact that christianity exists has nothing to do with the existence of Jesus.
And if you listen to whatever someone who rises from the dead says, then why not follow lazerus or the thousands of other gods that have sacrificed themselves and risen from the dead?
How can you be insulting all of his followers saying that it's not true? You know deep down in you'd heart that it is. There was a boy who had never learned about what heaven would be like, and during a surgery, he said that he'd went to heaven and back. He described it perfectly without knowing anything about it. So, the earth started with a big bang and that everything was exactly perfect and that it was just a coincidence? And the evolution of humans, we evolved from monkeys? Why aren't there any half-human half-monkeys walking around today? Is there any proof that half-human half-monkeys ever existed?
DeleteI'm Muslim. But I agree on the guy above me. You can't feed you kids lies about Christianity. I respect all religions. Christianity and Islam are really close together. They have the same stories.
Delete"overwhelming evidence of the true Jesus."
ReplyDeleteWhat is this evidence?
"(and there is more that supports the Bible's claims than just what is in the Bible), you would have to dismiss much of what is recorded in history."
What exactly do you mean by "recorded in history"? Where? By whom?
"Both McDowell and Strobel were like me in that they came to the truth while investigating it as skeptics / non-believers."
Why don't you give your son the same chance to find out for himself?
If Jesus' claims are true and his life and ministry were real ( and I believe they are) then believers in him have alot to look forward to when we meet him in eternity not to mention the peace in life that trusting and knowing him offers us. While I understand and respect the scientific questions, in the end, believers spend eternity with God who loves us!
ReplyDeleteAnd it is true that believing and trusting/seeking God is a choice that each of us have.
ReplyDeleteYou have a very smart son. Good luck to him.
ReplyDeleteRegardless of the contents of the bible, or exercises in nonsensical Christian apologetics like the ones you mentioned, the simplest explanation for why Jesus' tomb was empty is decidedly not because he arose from the dead.
ReplyDeleteIt is entirely plausible that Jesus' tomb was not empty and people just lied about it, or grave robbers or adoring fans stole his corpse. In fact it's more plausible that his body was eaten by wild animals, or cannibals, than his coming back to life after three days.
Basically most explanations are better than he came back to life after being murdered.
The only situation in which spontaneous resurrection is the "best explanation" for an empty tomb is if it confirms a belief you already accepted on insufficient evidence, and are desperate to retain.
@shellsems
ReplyDeleteYou are looking forward to dieing, and spending an eternity with a dictatorial god in a celestial communistic imaginary realm? The worst thing I could ever imagine is living forever with a bunch of Christians talking non-stop about how good Jeebus is.
But since your religion is the only true one(none of them are true) at least you won't have to worry about seeing the soulless Islamics and people from the thousands of other religions you write off as wrong just because you were brainwashed from youth to believe what you believe.
If you believe in this amazing eternal life to come and are 100% sure of it, then why do you wear a seat belt, or use any safety measures to protect your life? None of these things would be suicide and would make you get into heaven faster, correct?
Also, when sections of the brain are damaged in real life, they can impede speech and brain function. I wonder how is it, that the whole entire brain can stop working at death, (the brain is the only thing that makes you concious) and then your mind and every thing you know magically transcends into an imaginary realm.
Also, when you get to heaven you do understand that the whole bible, new and old testament will be forced upon you. So enjoy going to hell for shaving your side burns, going to hell if you have tattoos, going to hell if you are gay, going to hell for eating pork, going to hell for associating with a woman on their period, going to hell for wearing polyester blends, going to hell if you are a woman and taught men, and going to hell for eating shell fish.
These things are so childish, I'm glad I moved to a country where people do not believe in such things.
yes because being in eternal nothingness forever sounds mush better smartass
Delete"I told Elijah that even if the proof of creation and the resurrection didn't point to God being real, I would still believe in God." Good job, you summed up Christianity in one sentence.
ReplyDeleteYou and your son should check out http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism
ReplyDelete"I'm not sure how it is "retarded," and frankly, your use of that offensive term shows how small your mind is."
ReplyDeleteWell actually the use of retarded is quite apt, in fact. Retard simple means (by definition) to impede. I would suggest that only small minded individuals would find such a word, or any word really, offensive. It is after all just language. What's truly offensive is to indoctrinate children before they even have the mental capacity to make up their own minds.
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ReplyDeleteSo you said that you did a lot of reading ("studying") before coming to the conclusion that Jesus' resurrection myth was a reality... Did you happen to read books that might challenge that idea? There certainly is a wealth of them out there, have you bothered to read a single one? Because if your "studies" are based solely on reading books that agree with your viewpoint, you have certainly biased the pool of information from which you are drawing your conclusions. Did they not teach you how to a lit search in graduate school?
ReplyDeleteYour post reminds me of the time my young son asked my father, "If God new Adam and Eve were going to eat the fruit, but he put the tree in the garden anyway... then God is responsible for sin, isn't he?".
ReplyDeleteWhen children are learning how to think for themselves, their minds haven't learned to make excuses and exceptions for things they want to believe... to defend cherished beliefs at the expense of logic. They all have the same questions, don't they? They know that our religious beliefs don't make any sense in the real world - their questions are an attempt to ascertain why we believe them anyway.
You admit that you don't have any empirical evidence to back up your belief in God, or to ground it in the real world... and yet you still believe, and encourage your son to believe as well.
I do find your post interesting, as I was in the same situation... however I lost my faith in God and now don't encourage my children to believe.
I also wanted to say that I am sorry for how some people have commented on your post. Many people just don't have the time, inclination, mental capacity or vocabulary to respond in an articulate and thoughtful manner. I don't think you are retarded or stupid in any way... I think you are doing what you believe is right and living by your convictions... and trying to do what is right by your son. That is admirable.
I do want to point out, however, that there is a ton of evidence that completely destroys the young earth creationist position... the distance to the stars shows that the universe is billions of years old; geologic evidence that indicates the earth is millions of years old - atolls, glaciation, etc..; geologic distribution - fossil and living evidence in Madagascar and Australia that refutes a global flood; DNA evidence of evolution such as ERV's, dormant vitamin C synthesis genes, new information creation due to point and frameshift mutations; Hominid fossils such as Homo Heidelbergensis... not to mention problems with the Bible - contradictions and inconsistencies that demonstrate the error of doctrines such as infalibility and inspiration.
Anyway, I do enjoy talking about these issues, so thank you for your post and the fact that you allow comments.
It's so sad to see minds ruined by religious indoctrination.
ReplyDeleteADDENDUM TO THE ABOVE: The books you cited have been combed over and thoroughly debunked... better luck next time.
ReplyDeleteSTROBEL DEBUNKED:
http://www.daylightatheism.org/series/the-case-for-a-creator
http://www.caseagainstfaith.com/another-case-not-made-a-critique-of-lee-strobels-the-case-for-a-creator.html
http://www.caseagainstfaith.com/earl-doherty-on-the-case-for-christ.html
MCDOWELL DEBUNKED:
www.skepticfiles.org/mcdowell/mcproofs.htm
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7809986/The-Jury-is-In-Debunking-Josh-McDowell
Everyone can find sources that support and confirm your own bias. Let's assume this is because others share the same bias. However, even if it would not be because they share your bias, capitalism could still dictate the presence of such sources, since there is need for it. While you could call reading about the things you already believe in as studying, it's not an argument against the opposite, as you have not pointed out any contradicting sources that do exist.
ReplyDeleteSaying you've made a conclusion on this basis is purely based on opinion, not truthfulness. If you wanted to make a conclusion that isn't a personal belief, you would have to do research, not just study your own bias.
If for example, I would like to become a pianist, I would study playing pianist, whether or not I believe that piano's are factually considered music or an instrument, or even something physically real, is not the point of what I'm studying, I've taken these for granted and have chosen to learn playing one. However, if someone would contradict the existence of a piano, I couldn't simply point out that it is true because I have studied it, since the studying I've done assumes it to already be true, and so have I.
You might think you're teaching your child to love Jesus, but you might as well be teaching him to not be able to logically think for himself, as the way you've tried to convince him of your faith is not logical in itself.
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
ReplyDelete— Marcus Aurelius
If you really wanted to raise your kid well, you would expose him to all sides of the story, and then afterwards give him your personal opinion. He looks up to you and so your personal opinion will mean a lot to him, but you are essentially denying him the full story, and therefor the ability to let him think for himself. Let your child come first, and your faith second.
ReplyDeleteEndoctrination of a child with this nonsense is nothing short of abuse. All I can hope is that Elijah's inclination to analysis and doubt will help him eventually see these claims as the fiction they are.
ReplyDeleteYes, I am training my kids to ask questions and analyze. I do like to examine multiple viewpoints as well. But I think it is a strong statement to call raising my children to follow Christ as abuse.
ReplyDeleteThe real abuse is when we have a post-modern philosophy, whereas we teach others that they can make up their own truths and morals. If we carried this to the end, what a dangerous world we would live in.
Your post reminds me of the time my young son asked my father, "If God new Adam and Eve were going to eat the fruit, but he put the tree in the garden anyway... then God is responsible for sin, isn't he?".
ReplyDeleteWhen children are learning how to think for themselves, their minds haven't learned to make excuses and exceptions for things they want to believe... to defend cherished beliefs at the expense of logic. They all have the same questions, don't they? They know that our religious beliefs don't make any sense in the real world - their questions are an attempt to ascertain why we believe them anyway.
You admit that you don't have any empirical evidence to back up your belief in God, or to ground it in the real world... and yet you still believe, and encourage your son to believe as well.
I do find your post interesting, as I was in the same situation... however I lost my faith in God and now don't encourage my children to believe.
I also wanted to say that I am sorry for how some people have commented on your post. Many people just don't have the time, inclination, mental capacity or vocabulary to respond in an articulate and thoughtful manner. I don't think you are retarded or stupid in any way... I think you are doing what you believe is right and living by your convictions... and trying to do what is right by your son. That is admirable.
I do want to point out, however, that there is a ton of evidence that completely destroys the young earth creationist position... the distance to the stars shows that the universe is billions of years old; geologic evidence that indicates the earth is millions of years old - atolls, glaciation, etc..; geologic distribution - fossil and living evidence in Madagascar and Australia that refutes a global flood; DNA evidence of evolution such as ERV's, dormant vitamin C synthesis genes, new information creation due to point and frameshift mutations; Hominid fossils such as Homo Heidelbergensis... not to mention problems with the Bible - contradictions and inconsistencies that demonstrate the error of doctrines such as infalibility and inspiration.
Anyway, I do enjoy talking about these issues, so thank you for your post and the fact that you allow comments.
Religion may be comforting, but please don't discredit science because of what illiterate goat herders wrote thousands of years ago. Don't brainwash your child. Read. Learn. And take credit for your own achievements. YOU did them, not Jesus.
ReplyDeleteif the existence of the universe is evidence of a god, is the existence of a god evidence of a godmaker?
ReplyDeleteyou're an idiot, and you are retarding your child's intellectual growth.
I think John's post is the only way we can win against moderates like the OP
ReplyDeleteSatya Sai Baba rose from the dead, performs miracles every day, and has millions of followers; won't don't you follow him? By your logic you should be worshipping him, especially considering the man is alive now. Well, his followers claim that he rose from the dead and that he performs miracles, but that's about as much evidence as we have for Jesus.
ReplyDeleteThe Case for Christ and The Case for a Creator, as well as The Case for Faith, are examples of shoddy journalism. Lee Strobel only interviews people who will back up the claim that he is trying to prove, especially so in The Case for a Creator, the more "science based" one. Does he talk to any prominent Evolutionary Theorists? Any prominent Biologists? No. He talks to Michael Behe and anyone else remotely connected to the Discovery Institute. Please, go back and read an intro text to Biology. It has more science and more truth in it than any of the books you mentioned.
poor kid
ReplyDeleteI was raised in an EXTREMELY conservative Christian family, with a pastor for a father. I'm so thankful that I finally broke free, and decided to use my ability to think and reason.
ReplyDeleteI know you think you're doing something good for your son. So did my dad. It scrambled my young mind, and has caused me endless turmoil for my whole life, as well as almost ruining my relationship with my family. You are only encouraging your son to stop exercising his ability to reason, in order to please you. Good luck.
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ReplyDeleteif Jesus is, in fact, the son of God, and also, God, as the trinity tells us, then he had sex with his own mother, and that's just disgusting.
ReplyDeleteWhy I know That There is a God and That He Loves Me So
ReplyDeleteA Personal Testimony.
Allow me to share a story. Not too long ago doubt was creeping into my head about the Lord and then a miracle happened.
It was 3 years ago and 50 members of my church were enroute to a bible camp in the Blueridge Mountains of Virginia. They were traveling in a chartered bus. As they sang blessed hymns to the Lord, Satan was up to his old tricks. You see, the bus driver was an atheist socialist and that day his coffee mug was filled with vodka. As the bus wound up through the switchbacks, the driver became progressively drunker. Then it happened. It was that day that changed this poor sinner's life forever. Entering a particularly tight switchback, the besotted driver finally lost control of the bus and it plummeted 1500 feet down into a ravine where it exploded into a fireball incinerating the flock. The only survivor that fateful day was a young boy who was thrown from the bus by his father seconds before it hit the bottom.
This young boy suffered severe brain damage from hitting a rock head first and will have to wear a football helmet and drool cup for the remainder of his life. But his survival proved to me that miracles do happen because God does exist and loves me. The Lord caused that accident to bring me back to his flock.
Hallelujah!
Praise Jesus! Just open your eyes to his miracles and you will see him everywhere.
Paster Bobby Dufrane
ReplyDeleteare you the retarded droopy eyed boy that wears the helmet??
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ReplyDeletehi Mikel!!!
ReplyDelete:wavey:
Great story anon! Very entertaining.
ReplyDeleteIf I were a Christian, and I actually wrote out the reasons I think god is real like you did, I just hope I wouldn't also be stupid enough to believe in them.
ReplyDelete"it just makes sense". HA. If you majored in physics I think the big bang would make a lot of sense. Just because it "makes sense" doesn't mean it's true.
Your second argument is hilarious as well. You use a similar method of logic as your first. "it only makes sense that he came back to life". or he was never buried in a tomb. or he never existed. or maybe his body rotted just like normal bodies do.
What exactly has god/jesus done for you personally? That is not a solid argument because you've never met or talked to either of them. Feeling joyful or happy doesn't mean that you're interacting with jesus at that moment.
If you keep on lying to your already open-minded son, he's going to see the truth and obviously become agnostic/athiest....
"It just makes sense that everything in the universe exists because there is a Creator. It all could not have happened by itself"
ReplyDeleteThen where did the creator come from? For the sake of argument lets say the universe was created by a supernatural force, what evidence do you have that it is the Christian monotheist god and not any of the other gods?
"Jesus' Resurrection. Historical evidence shows that Jesus' tomb was empty, and the best explanation is that He came back to life. When someone dies and comes back to life, I'm going to pay attention to everything He says."
ReplyDeleteLOLOLOLOLOL. I couldn't stop laughing at this. Quit the blogging and become a comedian please.
McDowell and Strobel have been thoroughly debunked for some time now. Honestly, their arguments are the same tired tripe that Christian apologists have trotted out since Lewis. It doesn't matter how many times you try, the "Resurrection trilemma" argument is never, ever going to be more than sheer delusion. It doesn't matter how hard you try, the Josephus text is still going to be a forgery.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that people still bring up these two authors boggles the mind.
-GB
"Historical evidence shows that Jesus' tomb was empty, and the best explanation is that He came back to life."
ReplyDeleteAre you kidding me? Jesus has melted your brain, friend...
Do you know who else's tomb was empty? King Tut. So by your logic he must have been resurrected too, right?
ReplyDeleteJesus' Resurrection. Historical evidence shows that Jesus' tomb was empty, and the best explanation is that He came back to life. When someone dies and comes back to life, I'm going to pay attention to everything He says.
ReplyDeleteIt is more likely for a person to come back to life than for another person to have robbed their tomb? You're joking, right?
"I told him that he's right in that I believe in God, but that one day he would have to believe in God for himself, not because his Daddy believes in God."
ReplyDeleteNoticed it wasn't phrased, "You will have to decide for yourself whether a god exists.." or "whether it's really Thor or Allah that exists."
You are not a scientist. You DO scientific work. Big difference. A non-christian could work in a church - bookkeeping, usher, sit through services - but that does not make him or her a christian. In the similar way, you do the work of a scientist, but you are no scientist.
Thank you for presenting your perspective as a theist scientist (a term which, unfortunately, has yet to be fully recognized as an oxymoron).
ReplyDeleteNow, here is my rebuttal of your contentions:
1. That is an Argument from Increduity ("I don't understand it [evolution], so it mustn't be true.") However, evolution (a widely corroborated scientific theory) is actually far more sensible as it is a conclusion derived from observations, in contrast to the intelligent design "theory" (in the general sense, not the scientific one), which is a premade conclusion with exaggerated facts contorted to fit it. The vast body of evidence has yet to be countered with any credible evidence. Also, critics of evolution (such as yourself, evidently) have yet to give any credible substantiation for their own "theory" and continue to ignore numerous aspects of biology in reality, such as the fact that we have had around 4.5 billion years to develop all this and the fact that very little of this could be purported to be designed "intelligently." In addition, I understand the basis of your increduity- the formation of such complex forms and systems through something such as evolution (not merely chance, of course, as survival of the fittest plays a role, but mutations, of course, are the fortuitous basis of new genes arising) is often hard to comprehend and/or accept. However, when you think of this, notice your sample set- think of all the life that DIDN'T arise. Think of the plethora of celestial objects which did not have life arise. Would anyone contemplate the vast beauty of such a complex system there and begin to doubt it? No. Of course not. Because nobody exists there.
2. This is an extremely interesting point for a scientist to make. You need to remember that your conclusion is in no way justified by your evidence. For all we know, the better conclusions are that: a) Jesus did not exist in the first place and was fabricated for propaganda purposes, or maybe b) Like pharaohs and other important leaders, his tomb was robbed. Or maybe it wasn't even Jesus' tomb. Also, please cite your sources. Often, when I see such claims, there's a very lengthy article by a well-informed group (thank you, snopes!) showing the claim to be complete BS.
3. It's interesting to see a purported "scientist" provide non-empirical evidence for God in such a fashion. However, please remember that this is what we call a "non-sequitur" (I breathe, therefore God; or as the pastor up top said, "Something defied probability, so therefore God!") as the conclusion does NOT, in any way, follow the premise. It's just like saying, "There is a sea, therefore Poseidon, because Poseidon's myths say he created the sea." (Untrue, but I just used it as a handy analogy).
Ctrl+F "nukebanana" for second part
Ctrl + F "nukebanana" for first part.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, looking inward at yourself is actually a great way to substantiate evolution to oneself. I'm not very knowledgeable about my genes, but I know that I possess at least one which makes me highly resistant to malaria, which was prominent in my land of ancestry. Remember that life keeps bombarding you with information which is interesting and beautiful. If you have the ability, let it flow to you and go interpret it. It's a disservice to yourself to brand it as some sort of deception, for, if your viewpoint is correct, then you'll be able to substantiate and support it regardless of what information comes at you. I'm surprised that denial of information is a tactic used by Christians, who are the most ardent in declaring their faith to be true.
As you stated at the top, you want your curious and intelligent son to be able to figure out God for himself. The best way to do so is to allow all information to flow to him so he can comprehend all sides of the situation. I strongly advocate letting him read more scientific literature, in addition to the Bible (by himself- please don't guide him. In the end, depending on another person for interpretation is harmful to all parties involved. He may not understand it the first time around, but don't go correct him).
Well, thank you for providing your perspective and analyzing that of my own (a New Atheist/antitheist). I hope you further contemplate your situation from other perspectives (including those of other religions, most of which are supported by arguments very similar to the ones you just provided here) and strongly advise you to increase the freedom of thought you allow your son.
Your beliefs are your own. But when you can't explain the beginning of the universe, you should not fill it in with "God". Instead you should perhaps ask "Is there even a beginning to the universe, or an end?". It is a far more meaningful endeavor than just praising your white God for making you white in the US in the Milky white Way.
ReplyDeleteNothing says that the universe should have a beginning. You are assuming, and when we assume...
You seem to have a smart kid, don't ruin that potential. Religion owes humanity so much for two millenia of terror and indoctrination.
I'm sorry I haven't been able to keep up with all the comments as they've come in. But in truth, all haven't been worth responding to.
ReplyDeleteI do appreciate the comments here, as far as engaging in the dialogue. I did have to remove a few due to profanity.
John, I especially appreciate your perspective and civility.
For all, I in know way meant this to be a post where I went into the deeper details about how I came to my conclusions. The purpose of this post was not to make a case for what I believe, but about the great conversations that my son and I have had. Please give me a little more credit than the reasoning I give here (or gave my son) is just the beginning of why I believe what I do.
16 years ago, I went into this topic with a high level of inquisitiveness and skepticism. And despite what some commenters say, I was not wanting to believe or prove Christianity. In fact, as agnostic and Jewish, WANTING to believe in Christianity was the last thing on my mind.
I went down the path the data pointed to. And I've been seeking and questioning and living as best I can with the revelation I have.
People die and come back to life all the time in hospitals. Are you going to pay attention to everything they say and follow it blindly?
ReplyDeleteHow can you assert that Jesus came back to life is the most logical explanation? That's like looking at a water puddle and saying that:
"Of course it was small purple aliens that came from pluto, who landed there with their ship which in turn created a small indentation in the ground. When they then decided to leave they filled it up with water to cover up their trails. Therefore all the puddles in the world were created by the purple aliens. It's just that we never see them."
Maybe someone plundered his grave?
Maybe the writers of the bible didn't get the facts straight?
Maybe Jesus didn't even exist and *gasp* they lied to get popular.
Like some people get popular for making ridiculous songs about a certain day of the week regardless of wether the song is good or not.
maybe your right and when we die nothing happens but if I am right then you burn in hell forever who has got more to lose
DeleteHenrik,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your comment. As I said before, the purpose of this article was NOT to make an apologetics case for the resurrection of Jesus. When I told my son that (and when I write it here), it is actually done on the basis of seeking answers tot he questions your raise. It wasn't just a glib answer, but one that was researched thoroughly.
And without going into details here, know that these questions have been assessed with a historical context. That is, these questions need to be (and have been) explored with the same level of historical criticism that you would any other event or person.
If we want to examine these with openness, that's one thing. But if someone wants to blindly question everything without being willing to accept truths, well, I cannot help that.
Joey,
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I take exception with in your post is the third part based on your experience. If the Resurrection did not happen and that is convincingly proved, our faith (I am a disciple of Christ also) is worthless (1 Cor. 15:12-19). Your experience exists because the Resurrection is true. We can never argue "Well even if it's all a big hoax, I will still believe." Believe in what? Jesus said, "Because I live, you will live also." (John 14:19) If Jesus is not alive now at the right hand of the Father, interceding on our behalf, our faith is worthless and "we are of all men most to be pitied (1 Cor. 15:19)."
I encourage you with Matthew 5:11-12. Press on, brother.
-MDIV
Yes, yes. You are right on! I did not mean to say that I would believe if it was untrue. I meant to say that I believe it's true, even if I couldn't prove it empirically. Again, this was a big step for me. But you are right, that I wouldn't have these experiences if the Resurrection wasn't true.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your encouragement.
Matthew 5:11-12,
"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."
Wow, lots of activity here over what Joey wrote. I enjoy a good debate over the important things of life as much as anyone. However, notice that the point of Joey's blog isn't necessarily apologetics but parenting. Here the two topics have intersected a bit but this really isn't the best forum for debating atheism vs. Christianity.
ReplyDeleteSo I waited a few days to post this so as not to provoke the reddit visitors to a debate. I hope for the next few points to be for any of Joey's typical readers who might have read through these comments. If you'd like to debate those finer points then I'd welcome you to a few links below to hash this out in a more suitable venue.
1) There is lots of internal and external evidence for the resurrection of Jesus. Here are two links for anyone interested in what that looks like.
http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2011/04/evidence-for-the-resurrection-in-a-nutshell/
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2011/04/21/is-there-historical-evidence-for-the-resurrection-of-jesus/
2) Even though Joey was not raised a Christian, believing something just because of the culture you were raised in doesn't mean it's not true. A source of information doesn't necessarily correlate with it's veracity. If I read from some tea leaves that Barack Obama was currently president of the USA that statement would still be true even though my methods were suspect.
3) Evolution doesn't disprove Jesus' resurrection or that the universe had a creator. Just ask the Pope.
4) The "battle between science and religion" is a made up one that gets a lot of play because people a drawn to conflict. Plenty of devout theists have been pioneering scientists. Newton, Pascal, Lemaitre, Mendel, Collins, Pasteur, etc…
5) Along the same lines, there is no scientific proof that we should only accept scientific proof. Logic, reason, math, history, morality, etc…. all contain truth that is unaccessible by science.
6) Joey's kids have not been ruined by religious indoctrination. He left a safe corporate job to serve a church and now he's left that steady environment to serve the poorest and most hopeless people in the state. Teaching kids to take care of the most vulnerable people in society is the right thing to do.
Lastly, if any atheists have made it this far I am sorry to the extent that the church has (and it certainly has) let you honestly believe that the straw man "Xianity" you hate so much is real. We are fallen and imperfect people and need your patience and forgiveness. If it helps I don't believe the god you've rallied against here is real either.
Rob -- the funny thing is that of all the comments that came through, yours (along with 2 or 3 others) was caught as spam.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your words. I wish we would have just included your great comment/points as a "guest" post instead - and I may still do that to give it more visibility. In fact, the 2 links you provided, I was going to publish anyway. Beat me to it.
Thanks for your candor, especially in your last paragraph.
Joey, Satan is certainly at work here in some of these posts. Press on. If only more little boys could have an earthly father like you.
ReplyDeleteVery cute and heartwarming story! And sorry you got bombarded by the Theology Police! lol I thought your explanation was great, and absolutely appropriate for the age of the child you were talking to.
ReplyDeleteThanks. I wasn't worried so much by the theology police, but by the crude comments. I'm always up for debate (my wife says it's more like I always want to argue).
ReplyDeleteBut thanks for your encouragement!
My pastor just shared that it is "scientifically impossible" to be an athiest. To say with 100% certainty there is NO God, would mean that this person possesses "all knowledge". I don't know anyone (outside of God) who possesses all knowledge. So within the 98% that they do not know they would actually be better off to say they "do not know" there is a God - making them agnostic.
ReplyDeleteI found your link through your SCLQ comment. I had this same discussion about 2wks ago with someone on Facebook. He wanted to argue "free will". I appreciate so much how you handled yourself throughout the barrage of comments. I too, believed first because my parents believed. I believed on my own when I was about 30, as God revealed Himself to me during some very difficult times.
Blessings to you and your family.
Thanks, Shawna. Yes, you're right about atheism vs agnosticism. I guess when I was growing up I was more of an agnostic (with some Deist in there).
ReplyDeleteThanks for taking the time to read the post, and the comments. I hope it was an encouragement to you.
God bless you, too.
Wow! Lots of Wolves in Sheeps clothing here who debate so boldly but then sign their names as "anonymous!" Are you all fearful of being accountable to your attacks? And, for those of you who are Atheist, you have spent a lot of effort to prove your point...when you believe in God, you save a lot of time! We are born with an innate feeling of knowing right from wrong...the "golden rules" if you will...so even if you don't believe in God, living a life that is wholesome and just is often what non-Christians do because they know it is right. Did they learn that from Darwin? Apes? No one on Earth knows the truth 100%, but if God/Jesus do exist, I would rather have believed than to not have. There are plenty of places in the bible that show that God has a temper and will bring wrath to those who don't believe. I would prefer to not be a part of that! I was raised of Baptist faith and yes, I too followed my parents...however, what was wrong with that? I was able to hold on to my innocence for so much longer than if I was not sheltered and protected with feelings of hope. I came to this site in a random search for comfort as I too was hoping for answers on the Truth as my brother is gravely ill in the hospital and I needed some encouraging words of hope. Unfortunately, I received just the opposite. However, I feel sorry for the Author whose personal opinion was torn apart here. I was actually comforted to hear at first that a Scientist is also actually a Christian as well! Being in the medical field and having had to take a lot of science classes, I rarely found this! Good for you Joey for standing your ground!
ReplyDeleteThanks for stopping by and leaving a comment. I'm sorry to hear about your brother.
ReplyDeleteBut of course, do not feel bad for me. I felt nothing personal, as this really isn't about my opinion, but about God's truth. In Him alone do we find truth and hope.
look you dumbasses (atheists) i love the fact that you try to diprove that GOD is not real (even though he is.) by saying "oh well there is no proof and we have proof that evoulution is real yet you have not even read one verse in the bible. Look around you, this planet alone is just to advanced in creation for their not to be GOD and Christ. Number 1 look at our articullant desighn, our body holds everything it needs to keep us alive and running we didnt just simply evolve over millions of years. If we started out with just one weak point in our bodies we would have died off a loooooooooooong time ago. Our cells are the main point we are able to live because it supports our internal organs such as the brain ect. Now look at the cell, it was CREATED to the point to detect any virusus, illnesses and so on and take action. But if we look at evoultion it is basically stating that the cell kept self correting itself over millions of years without real consiquences? No, if that were true we would all die even by a simple sickness in the first place because if one got sick the rest of us would be and die in a matter of hours and u think thats valid? lol u make me laugh GOD created our bodies with such peccision that we can overcome many different types of diseases injuries ect... Also look at this vast universe and were our earth stands it was purposely placed here, for example, the earth is perfectly placed with the sun and if we were any closer we would burn and if any further away we would freeze Also look at the fact that there are millions of stars that are much larger than the sun yet ours sun is so perfect for us to thrive for creating crops, vegatables and the warmth we need to sustain our core tempature that we do not parish. I could go on and on and on with more proof but it would take hours for me to type and would rather spend it with my family and freinds rather than arguing with a bunch of halp pint fools who are to scared to work for something they are ultimatly scared of in the first place. So i leave with my closing statement with GOD bless you and hopefully you would take reality much more seriously instead of comming up with half assed excuses (such as evolution) so you can take the little comfort you have in trying to disprove GOD while i sit here laughing at you because you are to ill minded to face the fact that you actually have to work for something to gain ultimatly peace and prosperity instead of it being baby fed to you because your just that lazy.
ReplyDeleteNot really sure how to respond to this incoherence and rudeness.
DeleteTest your faith. If you read this entire link you will no longer believe in God http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAURq_ouYLc
ReplyDeleteI did watch that, and the only thing I would say (whether or not I believed in God) is that it contains some of the worst logic I've ever seen. The video doesn't even allow comments so as to be open to discussion.
Delete